Thursday, December 15, 2005

Discussion on prostitution

Right now I am embroiled in a heavy discussion on prostituion in Philippines. You can read the thread here. But in case this link goes dead here is the gist.

Apparently I had offended some ultra-conservatives with my other website
Men's Fun in the Philippines. The poster, a semi-retired Fil-Am from Florida named Kurt with the handle "gihigugmataka," wrote that:

If this were a men's forum , I would agree with you 100%. But it's not. At least in the past , this has been a family forum. We have some very young members who do not need access to this type information.

There are several other low life topics we could discuss and post reference to in order to juice up our forum. How about some good gay sex dens ? Or maybe some of you would like to tell the rest of us the best places you have found to buy illegal drugs. And please don't forget about the needs and desires of our female members. Please list the countries where they can go to find the best male action at the most affordable prices.----PUKE !

Just a side note.---What sane individual knowing of HIV (AIDS) and one of the ways in which it is contracted , would frequent this sort of establishment ? Especially in Manila of all places.

When another conservatist supported him, Kurt further wrote that

I was beginning to think I was the only one with any decency left. It really pains me to read of such things. I am sure that given the opportunity , most of the gilrs in this profession in the Philippines would choose differently. I will never forget the night that a woman tried to sell me her 14 year old daughter. She wanted $60. ---SICK !!!!!!!!!!

I truly feel sad and angered when people take such a narrow view of life. This person had better face up to certain realities in life. One of which is that you can find porn anywhere in the net. All you have to do is google porn or sex. If you want to ban porn in the net, you might as well ban the whole internet.

So what's wrong with sex anyway? Why do people think it is filthy, vulgar, immoral, and unfit for intelligent conversation? Sex and drugs are two different categories. Sex drives are natural. Sex brings life. Sex provides natural pleasure. Sex can make you live longer, bring down blood pressure, release endrophins that make you happier. Drugs on the other hand can kill you. They can cause irreparable damage, both physically and psychologically. Why equate the two?

And also, what is it in prostitution that makes men and women cringe with disgust? When you strip out all the pre-conceived notions, all the Christian moralities, and break it down to its fundamentals, prostitution is basically a profession. Henceforth, lets not refer to them as "prostitutes" but instead as "sex workers." A sex worker offers a service, and the customer pays for the service. Please, do not muddle the discussion by bringing in a situation wherein some young girl is forced against her will by some pimp---that's slave labor and possibly pedophilia. And like some jobs, it could be an unpleasant experience. And like some jobs, the worker feels that she deserves something more or something better. True, the sex worker exposes herself to all sorts of health risks, but if she is careful, the risks can be no greater than a factory worker. A doctor or nurse probably expose themselves to far greater health risks.

And where does Kurt get the impression that Manila is a risk in terms of HIV or even AIDS? According to Avert, North America has about the same infection rate as that of Southeast Asia, and consider that Thailand, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Laos are part of Southeast Asia and that according to UNAIDS, Philippines has one of the lowest AIDS rates in Asia. In short, it can be surmised that a person is more likely to get infected with HIV in the U.S. than in the Philippines. Furthermore, to say that HIV is a sex-related disease simply shows how narrow minded some people can be.


Anonymous lopus_69 said...

Well, if you really think about it, a lot of uptight people tend to be holier than thou art.

Let the idiots be. These are the same morons that assume that people are born with morality and rights.

5:15 PM  
Blogger basangpanaginip said...

This conservatives, they get on my nerve sometimes.

Don't you worry about a thing man. You don't need their kinds to tell you what to do man.

7:37 PM  
Anonymous PHL said...

Also I agree that there's nothing this "gihigugmataka" can do about you or the website, I think that's not the kind of support or opinion you're looking for. So here's my two cents:

If this "gihigugmataka" person is so against it, where did he get the story about this mother offering her daughter for $60? And since there's no indication of the sex (physically Male or Female) there might even been a chance that this person is actually a physically female person. By the fact that this person is of the same sex as the primary subject of you website, somehow, I suppose "she" felt some guilt by association?

Even if you're Catholic or not. How a person practice his beliefs and religion is nobody else's business in the first place. As for underage kid who don't need the information? They used to say that about sex education, "we can teach our children about the birds and the bees later, they are practically babied" until kids in middle school started to have sex then they realize what the kids don't know can and will hurt them.

And if this "gihigugmataka" person is not the moderator and the moderator is taking lasse-faire attitude, then just simply ignore him since he's entitled to his/her freedom of speech, but so are you. It's not as if your website is advocating any behavior but mere acts as reference material for those who seeks it.

Besides, the biggest mistake he/she made is instead of reponding to your topic, this person had to start their own topic. Which simply indicates that maybe this person is KSP? If he/she feel so strongly this person can either reply to your topic or notify the moderator to remove it. Despite the fact the you posted you "ad" for over 3 days now and the moderator hasn't done anything to remove or notify you of violation of your post, that means it's within bounds of the forum rules, and I suspect the moderator respects your freedom of speech. Also you made it quite clean what the site is about. So I really don't know where this person comes off starting a topic to make attack on your post. (Kinda stupid, if you ask me, since this person doesn't even play by the rules.) There's no winning a battle with a mob. A civilized person, while they may disagree with you, would at least make effort and attempt to understand exactly what it is that you're saying before launching an attack on what you said (or what they thought you said).

Anyway, I would think your website is quite well known and popular by now. If you choose not to advertise at that website, I don't think you would notice the difference in the bandwith. I do think a lot more people read your blogs, etc. but most decide to remain discreet and silent. :-)

Anyway, I just get this feeling that this person is barking up the wrong tree. Maybe they could have PM'd the moderator to delete or move your post to a more appropriate forum, etc. if the moderator holds the same view and feelings.

For all I know, is this person say he/she has never utilized (I didn't say pay for) the services of a sex worker? If so, they have participate in the very act that they claim they're strongly against. (No matter when this happened, it just goes to show that showhow people may have done something but later regretted it, but why should other people bear their cross, so to speak?)

Sorry if the above comment seem to be making assumption of this person sex, because I start to compose my comment while I was searching for the thread at the other website. (:-p)

Anyway, this "Kurt"? person is indicating that he had a mail-order bride? I am glad that they are living happily ever after. But simply talking about other girls, especially those who work in the (sex) industry, does not necessarily degrade or other affect how people look at his wife. Also, presumably he grew up in the states, and the fact that he wanted a Filipino wife only goes to show that Filipina make a better wife than all the girls in the United States, or for that matter, the entire North America continent, di ba? :-p

So, I have so problems with the terminologies he used. Fornification? Why could he use words like "couplation," etc.? If he's claiming to make a objective statement, he should have used words that have a bad connotation and therefore pre-judging the information he was stating. :-(

Feel free to use my thoughts as your own (if you ever find them insiring, I don't think I wanna join that forum just for the one post but let me know if you really want a "war"? :-) Peace on earth!!!

And kids (non-legal-adult persons, male or female) with the ability to try out the information on the blog probably don't respond to authority well anyway. Hey, not everyday a kid can just hop on a plane and fly to Asia just to try out some sex escapade, right?

Even if there are kids from the Philippines who read that forum (which I doubt) at least they would have a road map, so to speak, instead blindly exploring. I think the case is quite clear, and therefore, I rest my case? :-)

11:21 AM  
Blogger basangpanaginip said...

well said phl. well said indeed.

12:37 PM  
Blogger Buwayah said...

Thanks for all the great words. I guess I was just too emotional about ultra-conservative folks.

PHL > Great analysis . . .

2:25 PM  
Anonymous M said...

Controversy = good link bait ;)

2:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a reader of your other blog. I had no idea you do a blog like this. I was going to post some statement of support but I read the thread. Man, I was so mad, I registered just to reply but the forum is a pain in the ass to register for (requiring stupid by-hand permission). So I will post what I want to say here:

What is someone who posts derogatory statements like this:

"Especially in Manila of all places."

doing posting in a Fil forum? If he has no respect for the Philippines then he has no respect for any of us who live here and should shut the hell up as its an issue that doesn't involve him since he thinks so lowly of Manila (which has a 1000x lower AIDS infection rate and 1/3 lower HIV cases than the US). If this asshole is a Filipino (as you said in the other blog), shame to have such a low opinion of his own country and, I am more than happy to sign a petition to reject his Filipino-ness and deny him entry to here ever again. I hope Jed Bush shoves the stick up his butt deeper.

4:50 PM  
Anonymous PHL said...

Thank you all for the kind words regarding my thought on the matter of sex workers, etc.

Well, BUWAHYA, I just wanted you to know despite what some who oppose you might say, there are quite a few of us who appreciate what you're doing and what you have done. :-)

12:49 PM  
Anonymous guava said...

Granted, there is a global context, where the PI stands as a mass exporter of human labor, and I can see where a Pinoy abroad might be sensitive to this fact.
Yet, it must be said that your antagonist stands as an intrinsically narrow-minded person living in a state of constant self-censorship, and with a disapproving view of the wide range of human experience. It is views like these that have criminalized a perfectly human behavior, and rendered it into a "floating world", as the Japanese say, a distance safe enough from where ungenerous people can throw stones.

If anything, considering our numbers abroad, one does not see large numbers of Filipinas in the sex trade. One may see Thai brothels in Berlin,but not Pinay ones.

All of the above however doesn't apply here, for from what i gather, you have always comported yourself with dignity, class and style - living the Golden Rule while having a blast in this short existence.
Your comfort with this aspect of your life is what sets people off, more than the sex.
if anything, PI culture tends to be juvenile about these things. In this, you are a subversive -- but so the fuck what.

For in the end, it's never just about getting off.
A well-lived life is a sensual life -- a life of the imagination.
Keep on livin, bro.

10:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mr. buwayahman,

I just wrote to inform you that your blog, men's fun in the philippines is just blocked by our IT reason by adult/explicit unproductive material.. just plain insane...

but being an IT man, can you help me get thru with it as i am really an avid reader of your blog.

thanks in advance


5:07 PM  

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